Someone talk to me about body shapes please... [Archive]

Whitestrat

10-05-2009, 05:45 AM

I've got a shorty on order... I'm a bit worried about how I might not be maximising the tonal advantage of a fully connected neck joint like a single cut or a chopper. Should I be concerned actually? I've got half a mind to switch to a chopper. The chopper at least gives me some decent upper fret access compared to the single cut.

What do you guys think?

WinstaBull

10-05-2009, 11:08 PM

Whitestrat

10-06-2009, 01:14 AM

The phrase tonal advantage implies that it is better. I know you probably didn't mean it that way but I needed to get the semantics thing out in the open.

The major question would be, what sound are you going for? The second question will be what scale length is your build? And third, what woods? In general, I think the extra mass of the singlecut styles will give you a bit more sustain and a beefier tone. But in my opinion, there are more important factors to the tone of a guitar than the shape - wood selection, pickups, scale length and neck size are probably bigger factors.

I'm contemplating a 25" scale. Something with a bit more of a snap than the usual Les Paul, but not quite a strat. I''d like to go for something similar to an Lp's tone, but less mud on the bass strings. Something a bit more mid-heavy than a normal 2 humbucker guitar you get off the shelf, yet with a tightness in the bass area.

I'm not so worried about the neck size, as it's most likely going to be a 7 string. Heh... But the body and neck woods are maple and 1 piece honduran mahogany body with BRW fretboard.

WinstaBull

10-06-2009, 01:51 AM

hehe, your out of my league with the 7 string thing. The bass of the low e goes into a whole other range i dont really know about... also the extra neck mass.

my gut feeling is that your on the right track with the double cut though,

Whitestrat

10-06-2009, 02:20 AM

my gut feeling is that your on the right track with the double cut though,

that's what I though initially too. But then, the more I look at the chopper, the more I want it. but I don't want to get it based merely on looks. It needs to make sense, especially since the shorty is king when it comes to upper fret access. I wonder of J can make a longer neck tenon for my case...:p

Benster

10-06-2009, 07:00 AM

i would go for the Chopper over the shorty, both in terms of looks and the added low end 'thump' of a single-cut neck joint, but that's just me.

if you're worried about upper fret access being problem.. go play a EBMM Axis or Peavey Wolfgang..

i've played those.. really good fret access.. and i think Jason's Chopper shape may be even better :D

Whitestrat

10-06-2009, 07:56 AM

i would go for the Chopper over the shorty, both in terms of looks and the added low end 'thump' of a single-cut neck joint, but that's just me.

Hey Ben, yep, i've played the Axis before. The fret access is similar to a Strat, basically. If the chopper was the same shape as the Axis, i'd jump on it for sure, but the choper actually has a longer upper bump. So the look kind of took a while for me to like.

The difference in tone is actually what got me thinking, because of the increased surface area of contact.

vangit

10-06-2009, 12:26 PM

I'm contemplating a 25" scale. Something with a bit more of a snap than the usual Les Paul,.........

Of course I suggest consulting Jason on this since he has the most experience with all his various models. I know every guitar is different, even two of the same model. But when you say "more snap than a Les Paul", the Shorty came to my mind. However, I have never played or seen a Chopper (I do have one being built).

Tommy can probably also chime in because he played Schroeder's in the NAMM booth for probably 6 hours each day. But if it's a snap your after,the Shorty at the NAMM show defintely had a snap to it compared to the Radio Lane singlecut
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vzc-69C9YVc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHUfbikXCek

guitarnyc

10-06-2009, 05:45 PM

I'm contemplating a 25" scale. Something with a bit more of a snap than the usual Les Paul, but not quite a strat. I''d like to go for something similar to an Lp's tone, but less mud on the bass strings. Something a bit more mid-heavy than a normal 2 humbucker guitar you get off the shelf, yet with a tightness in the bass area.

This description to me screams a shorty. Like Stu mentioned, the "Stormy Monday" shorty we had in the booth had such a beautiful sounding "snap" to it but when you went down on the low 'E', it helped tighten the normal "les paul mud" you are talking about. I think the "Stormy Monday" had a thick back as well which probably helped it bridge the favorite attributes about a strat and LP into one guitar. I'd stick with the shorty :)
________
Mmf (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/40/threesome/videos/1)

Whitestrat

10-07-2009, 01:53 AM

This description to me screams a shorty. Like Stu mentioned, the "Stormy Monday" shorty we had in the booth had such a beautiful sounding "snap" to it but when you went down on the low 'E', it helped tighten the normal "les paul mud" you are talking about. I think the "Stormy Monday" had a thick back as well which probably helped it bridge the favorite attributes about a strat and LP into one guitar. I'd stick with the shorty :)

What scale was the Stormy Monday? was it the LP scale? I seem to recall Jason's default shorty scale to be 24.75"? If so, then I'm surprised it's got a snap to it... Meaning, body shapes do differ in tone.

What about sustain? Was there a noticable difference between the stormy monday and the choppers you've played?

Whitestrat

10-07-2009, 01:55 AM

Of course I suggest consulting Jason on this since he has the most experience with all his various models.

I know that's the logical choice. But Jason is very busy, and I've already bugged both him and Elizabeth enough on stuff.:p I'll wait till I get the build start notification where you're supposed to finalise the specs with them to voice these changes (if any), and thought I'd just check here with you guys on your experiences.:D

Whitestrat

10-07-2009, 02:07 AM

Actually, I'm gonna level with you guys on something... I've always liked the shorty design. From day one, it's been my fav Schroeder model. That's why I initially went with it. The look, the symmetry, is just right for what I'm after.

Then I saw the Monk Guitar.

And it REALLY got to me.

Ouch...

(there... i said it.)

vangit

10-07-2009, 02:08 AM

I know that's the logical choice. But Jason is very busy, and I've already bugged both him and Elizabeth enough on stuff.:p I'll wait till I get the build start notification where you're supposed to finalise the specs with them to voice these changes (if any), and thought I'd just check here with you guys on your experiences.:D

I hear ya...:)
I'm almost positive Stormy Monday was 24.75. I'm also 99% sure it was the same body thickness as the Radio Lane single cut which is speced to a '59 LP. (I know...allot of I'm almost positives:)) So the Stormy was a nice thick bodied, nice full neck (Schroeder neck carve) guitar. Huge sustain, as Tommy said, nice thick non-muddy low E. But Tommy would play the Radio Lane, and go right to the Stormy, you definitely heard a snap to the Stormy. Same neck carve, I believe same scale length, same body thickness, just different body shape. J would need to chime in if the pups were different?

Whitestrat

10-07-2009, 02:14 AM

I'm also 99% sure it was the same body thickness as the Radio Lane single cut which is speced to a '59 LP. (I know...allot of I'm almost positives:)) So the Stormy was a nice thick bodied, nice full neck (Schroeder neck carve) guitar.

I don't doubt that. That's why my original specs had already requested for that same Radiolane thickness and headstock angle. Good to know those specs matter!

Benster

10-07-2009, 03:00 AM

Chopper.. 25 inch scale, braz or ebony board - no worries about muddiness :D

guitarnyc

10-07-2009, 05:35 AM

Wish I could help with the spec questions but I'm pretty sure the stormy monday just had the nice thick body but the longer scale length ? As with all of Jason's guitars, he's really got the neck carve down to an art. I can honestly say that I'll take any of Jason's guitars and be happy with the way my hand feels around the neck no matter what it's size...trust me, I've played them all, the thin ones and I'll go out on a limb and say I probably own the baseball bat of the group so far.

I still think you should go with the Stormy Monday specs for what you are looking for (whatever they are)
________
MERCEDES-BENZ M272 ENGINE (http://www.mercedes-wiki.com/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_M272_engine)

Whitestrat

10-07-2009, 07:26 AM

Chopper.. 25 inch scale, braz or ebony board - no worries about muddiness :D

Yeah, but don't forget it's a 7. not a 6. If it were a 6, I wouldn't be fussing over that here...:D

Schroeder

10-07-2009, 04:34 PM

I hear ya...:)
I'm almost positive Stormy Monday was 24.75. I'm also 99% sure it was the same body thickness as the Radio Lane single cut which is speced to a '59 LP. (I know...allot of I'm almost positives:)) So the Stormy was a nice thick bodied, nice full neck (Schroeder neck carve) guitar. Huge sustain, as Tommy said, nice thick non-muddy low E. But Tommy would play the Radio Lane, and go right to the Stormy, you definitely heard a snap to the Stormy. Same neck carve, I believe same scale length, same body thickness, just different body shape. J would need to chime in if the pups were different?

The Stormy Monday is 24 5/8" (really close to 24.75!). Yes, it is the same body thickness as the Radio Lane singlecut (1 3/4"). Pickups were different (Duncan 59s in the Radio Lane Standard, Seth Lovers in the Stormy Monday) but the snap was there when unplugged too.

Schroeder

10-07-2009, 04:43 PM

For a 7 string, I worry about too short of a scale length. No one wants a flabby bottom. ;) The 25" scale will help with that. The maple neck will be stiffer than mahogany too - the right choice in my opinion. Rosewood works great for stiffer, stable necks too.

As for body shape... Shad and I tried the Chopper shape on a 7 string and did not feel it worked as well as the doublecut body. A lot of that was the scale length and balance too. I re-made the Chopper body thinking it might be a neck heavy guitar with that shape. The longer upper horn worked well to balance the 26.75" scale length.

Started as this:
http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1620/995811/7695407/113085286.jpg

Ended up as this:
http://www.schroederguitars.com/gallery/custom-orders/shads-7-string

Whitestrat

10-08-2009, 02:15 AM

As for body shape... Shad and I tried the Chopper shape on a 7 string and did not feel it worked as well as the doublecut body. A lot of that was the scale length and balance too. I re-made the Chopper body thinking it might be a neck heavy guitar with that shape. The longer upper horn worked well to balance the 26.75" scale length.

Thanks for chiming in Jason!

Oh crap... Meaning my possiblity of having something that looks like a 7 string Monk guitar is out of the question now?

When you say doublecut, this would naturally extend to the shorty right? i don't want a baritone. The longest i'm willing to go for would be 25.5". I already have one of those, and I was wondering how a 25" scale would work when it's a bit shorter, but not as short as a Les Paul.

Schroeder

10-08-2009, 07:13 AM

Thanks for chiming in Jason!

Oh crap... Meaning my possiblity of having something that looks like a 7 string Monk guitar is out of the question now?

Not at all! I think it would work with a 7 string. The scale length of Shad's guitar raised concerns, not the 7th string.

When you say doublecut, this would naturally extend to the shorty right? i don't want a baritone. The longest i'm willing to go for would be 25.5". I already have one of those, and I was wondering how a 25" scale would work when it's a bit shorter, but not as short as a Les Paul.

I think 25" would work great for this configuration. The Shorty or Doublecut could work too but if you want a Monk-like guitar with a 25" scale, let's do it!

Whitestrat

10-08-2009, 09:17 AM

Not at all! I think it would work with a 7 string. The scale length of Shad's guitar raised concerns, not the 7th string.

Ah... I see... Because he wanted a baritone? And the body shape didn't look too sharp with the extended scale?

I think 25" would work great for this configuration. The Shorty or Doublecut could work too but if you want a Monk-like guitar with a 25" scale, let's do it!

Oooh... Jason, you're evil... Just when i almost resigned myself to one design (Shorty) you now come to tell me the Chopper is doable... (or are you referring to the shorty being done up like the monk guitar instead?)

Anyways, i can't wait for it to begin!

Shadscbr

10-08-2009, 09:06 PM

Hey Whitestrat,
I'm happy to see the possibility of another 7 string Schroeder :)

Here is my take on your dilema:
After feeling and seeing how my guitar turned out, I feel confident that Jason could balance out whatever scale length you want with the appropriate chopper body alterations.

Best of luck in your quest...if you ever want to play any of my sevens to get a feel for different neck widths and scale lengths, just let me know :)

Shad

Whitestrat

10-09-2009, 01:11 AM

Best of luck in your quest...if you ever want to play any of my sevens to get a feel for different neck widths and scale lengths, just let me know :)

Hey Shad, thanks for the offer. You willing to fly down to Singapore? :D

Shadscbr

10-09-2009, 01:26 AM

Hey Shad, thanks for the offer. You willing to fly down to Singapore? :D

Doh! I forgot your location.....but i would love a nice vacation :)

As far as scale length goes, do you know what tuning you will be using? If you are tuning to B, a 25ish scale length is fine, but for me, when tuning to A or Ab, i prefer the longer scale. Luckily, Jason can build whatever you want :)

Shad

Whitestrat

10-09-2009, 03:48 AM

As far as scale length goes, do you know what tuning you will be using? If you are tuning to B, a 25ish scale length is fine, but for me, when tuning to A or Ab, i prefer the longer scale. Luckily, Jason can build whatever you want :)

Highly valid question. I have an Ibanez S7320 that's 25.5" scale, and tuned to A. The bridge is built to have a long enough travel for the saddles to intonate for that. I'm using .11 strings, and the thickest is 0.58, which I find is pretty ok for A tuning. It's not too flabby.

I'm a bit concerned with using a TOM for A tuning, because I don't know if the bridge can accommodate both B tuning and A tuning. If the guitar cannot handle both, then perhaps I will have to settle for tuning the guitar in B. Furthermore, I initially planned to have a piezo built in for this, so it was going to be the graphtech ghost system. They do have 7 string options, but i don't know if they only offer TOM.

Why did you go with string-thru-body and not a stoptail?

Unless you are aware of another option? would a trem bridge work in this case?

Anyways, if you Do pop down here, let me know... Guitar or not, I'll take you out for some fantastic local food!

Shadscbr

10-09-2009, 07:33 PM

Highly valid question. I have an Ibanez S7320 that's 25.5" scale, and tuned to A. The bridge is built to have a long enough travel for the saddles to intonate for that. I'm using .11 strings, and the thickest is 0.58, which I find is pretty ok for A tuning. It's not too flabby.

I'm a bit concerned with using a TOM for A tuning, because I don't know if the bridge can accommodate both B tuning and A tuning. If the guitar cannot handle both, then perhaps I will have to settle for tuning the guitar in B. Furthermore, I initially planned to have a piezo built in for this, so it was going to be the graphtech ghost system. They do have 7 string options, but i don't know if they only offer TOM.

Why did you go with string-thru-body and not a stoptail?

Unless you are aware of another option? would a trem bridge work in this case?

Anyways, if you Do pop down here, let me know... Guitar or not, I'll take you out for some fantastic local food!

Whitestrat,

I'm glad the 7320 is working for you, i used to have a UVMC...i kind of wish i still had it.
I have a guitar with a 7 string TOM style bridge with piezo (i can swsitch from A to B) ...so it can be done :)

I went with the string through based on Jason's opinion. In my electric collection, I have a TOM w piezo, trem w piezo, and a couple regular fixed bridge types...i didn't have a string through, also, i like the curve Jason threw into the string through.

In general, scale length and bridge type are very personal (as is hollowness)...i say it's best to have one of each ;) :)

If i'm ever down your way, i'll be sure to take you up on your offer. If you make it to the states, you always have a place to crash and jam :)

the moral to all of my rambling is to make sure you get exactly what you want...Jason will hook you up!

Shad

Whitestrat

10-10-2009, 02:37 AM

I have a guitar with a 7 string TOM style bridge with piezo (i can swsitch from A to B) ...so it can be done :)

This is great news indeed. What scale length would this guitar be?

Shadscbr

10-10-2009, 10:40 AM

This is great news indeed. What scale length would this guitar be?

it's also 26 3/4 scale, with a 2 1/8 nut width, extra thick hollowbody :)

I'm excited to see the final design specs you and Jason come up with.

I feel that I should mention that the guitar in question was ordered in 2001-2002, i don't know exactly what bridges are available today. Make sure you can get the travel you need with what's available now. As long as you know what you need, Jason will make it work :)

Shad

Whitestrat

10-10-2009, 01:45 PM

I feel that I should mention that the guitar in question was ordered in 2001-2002, i don't know exactly what bridges are available today. Make sure you can get the travel you need with what's available now.

This is interesting. It's a longer scale, and the TOM still works for BOTH tunings? Hmm... I think I know why... and I think Jason knows it too. I'll just have to reconfirm it again with him when my build begins.

Thanks Shad. You've been helpful.

Basically, I've been yearing for a very playable 7 string Les Paul. So it will have the 59 thickness and headstock angle. Just that it'll be 25" scale. BRW fretboard, and mahogany body/neck. I know the neck is recommended to be maple, but I'm thinkint that'll detract too much from the tone I wanted to achieve.

The neck specs are a bit unusual. It's an extension of my fav neck: Ernie Ball Musicman Silhouette Special. The Silo Spec is a 6 string. This will have the same C"carve, same thickness, and a 12" radius. If you know EBMM necks, then you'll know that they're quite narrow at the nut. Yep, this will be a 7 string with a narrow nut. (47.8mm nut width) It will also come with tall stainless steel frets.

What did you use for your pickups? I'm thinking of going either Lollars or Bareknickles.

Shadscbr

10-11-2009, 02:08 PM

You can't go wrong with a comfortable EBMM profile...I love the neck on my JP7 :)

For pickups--Bryan wound a great 7 string set for us
http://www.bg-pups.com/

I can't wait to see everything come together

Shad

Whitestrat

10-12-2009, 05:13 AM

BG... how are the pups? I don't hear much buzz about them. Any comments? What kind of pups did you go for?

Shadscbr

10-12-2009, 05:27 PM

The pickups are great, and his customer service was top notch. I'm not sure my particular pickups have a name, I just explained what i was after...Bryan did the rest :)

Shad

Whitestrat

10-13-2009, 02:24 AM

Sounds great Shad... Any chance of hearing some clips of that 7 string Schroeder? I've been meaning to ask ever since I joined, but never got round to it.:D

Shadscbr

10-13-2009, 07:31 PM

Sounds great Shad... Any chance of hearing some clips of that 7 string Schroeder? I've been meaning to ask ever since I joined, but never got round to it.:D

It's funny you mention clips, because that's been on my on mind lately. It's a shame, but i don't have squat for recording equipment. I've been on a research quest to find a good bang for the buck recording interface and mic setup, so i can hopefully achieve my winter goal of setting up a small bedroom studio. Time and money are the only things missing :)

Maybe Jason has some clips he recorded before he shipped it out?

Shad

Whitestrat

10-14-2009, 12:56 AM

I've been on a research quest to find a good bang for the buck recording interface and mic setup, so i can hopefully achieve my winter goal of setting up a small bedroom studio.

Hey shad, in this case, the POD is your best friend. BEST recording one stop shop for home use, and it gives great results depending on how good you are at tweaking it.

My clips here: www.soundclick.com/demioblue (http://www.soundclick.com/demioblue) are all recorded with a PODXTLive.